From bhgray at valdosta.edu Wed Oct 10 11:08:10 2007
From: bhgray at valdosta.edu (Barbara Gray)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:08:10 -0400
Subject: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
Message-ID: <005201c80b4f$5ef67070$1ce35150$@edu>
All,
Larry Hilgert (who has finally emerged from an accreditation preparation
assignment) has provided additional documentation to support his claim that
the Puzzle Book was an individual effort. I am attaching a .pdf that
provides a statement from his department head indicating that the effort was
not assigned, supported, or directed by the university. Also included are
receipts for purchase of supplies and materials for the project that are
personal cash and credit card transactions.
I believe we need to take some formal action, which we agreed to do via this
listserv. If you are ready to take a vote and wish to designate Larry et
al's Puzzle Book IP as "Individual Effort" in which he and colleagues have
100% ownership rights, we will need a motion, a second, and then a vote.
May I consider the first return email I get as the motion, the second as the
second, and any other affirmative responses as aye votes? Of course, if any
of you still have concerns, do share them with the rest of us and we will
consider that discussion.
Once we close out this matter, I will provide meeting minutes.
Thanks.
Barbara
Ms. Barbara H. Gray
Director of Grants & Contracts
Valdosta State University
1500 North Patterson Street
Valdosta, GA 31698-0429
Telephone: 229-333-7837
Fax: 229-245-3853
Email: bhgray at valdosta.edu
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From ggaumond at valdosta.edu Wed Oct 10 16:14:41 2007
From: ggaumond at valdosta.edu (George Gaumond)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:14:41 -0400
Subject: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
References: <005201c80b4f$5ef67070$1ce35150$@edu>
Message-ID: <030101c80b7a$3140dff0$d6a212a8@VO01503>
Discussion, not a vote.
I suspect that each of us is waiting for a first vote to get a sense of direction.
Anyway:
1. It is clear from Bob Bauer's email that the work was not a directed assignment.
2. The most useful information seems to be Barbara's summary of Larry's verbal comments.
3. But, there does not seem to be any substantiation of Barbara's question about the work being done during "off" hours and with personal computers.
4. Andy's statement about using University computers and negative comments about bureaucratic roadblocks did not help me understand. I did not see how "waste" would occur by being careful of separating individual effort from university supported.
My assessment:
The work was not an assignment and personal, not university, supplies were used.
But, university computers were used, implying that the work was performed during normal working hours. There is no statement about "weekends, evenings and summer months" as Barbara suggested.
Based on what I read, it looks like "university assisted" effort because they used "paid time within the employment period" and used VSU computers.
Alternatively, since the phrase "other than office" is used in the policy, one could define that to include a work computer, assuming that no resources were used except electricity (vs. telecommunication services that implies charges). I think that mitigates the PC, but not the time.
Am I assessing too rigidly?
George
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From hbarnett at valdosta.edu Wed Oct 10 17:02:31 2007
From: hbarnett at valdosta.edu (Hollis R Barnett)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:02:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
Message-ID: <7427109.1192050151517.JavaMail.hbarnett@valdosta.edu>
This is also discussion not a vote.
Thank you George for you comments. I agree with your opinion.
I do not appreciate being referred to as a ?roadblock? when I am asked
to protect University interest. Please see Andrew Ostapski?s letter. I
am sure that once we refine the disclosure forms to include evidence
which will support a claimed effort, the process will become much more
streamlined.
With the letter from Bob Bauer it is clear that this is not an assigned
task. I feel that we should encourage research regardless of the
location that it was completed. A portion of faculty load is to do
research. I would hate to see faculty running from campus once they
have completed teaching their classes because they were afraid that
individual efforts could be clamed by the University. We would have
more parking but not a healthy productive environment.
I see this as an individual effort. However, I am the chair of this
committee. I think that a motion should come from one of the members.
Thank you,
Hollis
George Gaumond wrote:
>Discussion, not a vote.
>I suspect that each of us is waiting for a first vote to get a sense of
direction.
>
>Anyway:
>1. It is clear from Bob Bauer's email that the work was not a directed
assignment.
>2. The most useful information seems to be Barbara's summary of Larry's
verbal comments.
>3. But, there does not seem to be any substantiation of Barbara's
question about the work being done during "off" hours and with personal
computers.
>4. Andy's statement about using University computers and negative
comments about bureaucratic roadblocks did not help me understand. I
did not see how "waste" would occur by being careful of separating
individual effort from university supported.
>
>My assessment:
>The work was not an assignment and personal, not university, supplies
were used.
>But, university computers were used, implying that the work was
performed during normal working hours. There is no statement about
"weekends, evenings and summer months" as Barbara suggested.
>
>Based on what I read, it looks like "university assisted" effort
because they used "paid time within the employment period" and used VSU
computers.
>
>Alternatively, since the phrase "other than office" is used in the
policy, one could define that to include a work computer, assuming that
no resources were used except electricity (vs. telecommunication
services that implies charges). I think that mitigates the PC, but not
the time.
>
>Am I assessing too rigidly?
>
>George
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
>IPCmte-L mailing list
>IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
>
From tmanning at valdosta.edu Wed Oct 10 17:35:15 2007
From: tmanning at valdosta.edu (Thomas J. Manning)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:35:15 -0400
Subject: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
In-Reply-To: <7427109.1192050151517.JavaMail.hbarnett@valdosta.edu>
References: <7427109.1192050151517.JavaMail.hbarnett@valdosta.edu>
Message-ID: <000c01c80b85$722da8d0$5688fa70$@edu>
The term "directed assignment" means???? When I develop new educational material for students I was never specifically directed to do this but it is definitely part of my job. I do lots of it at home at night/weekends simply because it is easier but all of the ideas are derived from my experience at VSU. The same for research - no one ever directed me to do work in this area or that area BUT if I worked elsewhere I never would be working on the same projects - the location/situation originates and shapes the ideas.
Having receipts from stores for folders, etc is great - but where was the idea derived? If this is a university precedent - I'm not clear how a faculty member can write a book for a class he/she is teaching but say the university community was not part of molding the idea?
Also, do the authors list their home or VSU address in the book?
IMHO, tom manning
-----Original Message-----
From: ipcmte-l-bounces at lighthouse.valdosta.edu [mailto:ipcmte-l-bounces at lighthouse.valdosta.edu] On Behalf Of Hollis R Barnett
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:03 PM
To: ipcmte-l at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
Subject: Re: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
This is also discussion not a vote.
Thank you George for you comments. I agree with your opinion.
I do not appreciate being referred to as a ?roadblock? when I am asked
to protect University interest. Please see Andrew Ostapski?s letter. I
am sure that once we refine the disclosure forms to include evidence
which will support a claimed effort, the process will become much more
streamlined.
With the letter from Bob Bauer it is clear that this is not an assigned
task. I feel that we should encourage research regardless of the
location that it was completed. A portion of faculty load is to do
research. I would hate to see faculty running from campus once they
have completed teaching their classes because they were afraid that
individual efforts could be clamed by the University. We would have
more parking but not a healthy productive environment.
I see this as an individual effort. However, I am the chair of this
committee. I think that a motion should come from one of the members.
Thank you,
Hollis
George Gaumond wrote:
>Discussion, not a vote.
>I suspect that each of us is waiting for a first vote to get a sense of
direction.
>
>Anyway:
>1. It is clear from Bob Bauer's email that the work was not a directed
assignment.
>2. The most useful information seems to be Barbara's summary of Larry's
verbal comments.
>3. But, there does not seem to be any substantiation of Barbara's
question about the work being done during "off" hours and with personal
computers.
>4. Andy's statement about using University computers and negative
comments about bureaucratic roadblocks did not help me understand. I
did not see how "waste" would occur by being careful of separating
individual effort from university supported.
>
>My assessment:
>The work was not an assignment and personal, not university, supplies
were used.
>But, university computers were used, implying that the work was
performed during normal working hours. There is no statement about
"weekends, evenings and summer months" as Barbara suggested.
>
>Based on what I read, it looks like "university assisted" effort
because they used "paid time within the employment period" and used VSU
computers.
>
>Alternatively, since the phrase "other than office" is used in the
policy, one could define that to include a work computer, assuming that
no resources were used except electricity (vs. telecommunication
services that implies charges). I think that mitigates the PC, but not
the time.
>
>Am I assessing too rigidly?
>
>George
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
>IPCmte-L mailing list
>IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
>
_______________________________________________
IPCmte-L mailing list
IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
From dhollim at valdosta.edu Sun Oct 14 22:18:06 2007
From: dhollim at valdosta.edu (Diane C Holliman)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:18:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
Message-ID: <3171409.1192414686666.JavaMail.dhollim@valdosta.edu>
Hi All, I know this sounds like an excuse, but . . . my mom has been
very sick this week and last week and I am just catching up with
emails. I am off campus right now--I do want to catch up with this
discussion. Sorry to be so tardy with my reply. Diane
Thomas J. Manning wrote:
>The term "directed assignment" means???? When I develop new
educational material for students I was never specifically directed to
do this but it is definitely part of my job. I do lots of it at home at
night/weekends simply because it is easier but all of the ideas are
derived from my experience at VSU. The same for research - no one ever
directed me to do work in this area or that area BUT if I worked
elsewhere I never would be working on the same projects - the
location/situation originates and shapes the ideas.
Having receipts from stores for folders, etc is great - but where
was the idea derived? If this is a university precedent - I'm not
clear how a faculty member can write a book for a class he/she is
teaching but say the university community was not part of molding the
idea?
Also, do the authors list their home or VSU address in the book?
IMHO, tom manning
-----Original Message-----
From: ipcmte-l-bounces at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
[mailto:ipcmte-l-bounces at lighthouse.valdosta.edu] On Behalf Of Hollis R
Barnett
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:03 PM
To: ipcmte-l at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
Subject: Re: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
This is also discussion not a vote.
Thank you George for you comments. I agree with your opinion.
I do not appreciate being referred to as a ?roadblock? when I am asked
to protect University interest. Please see Andrew Ostapski?s letter. I
am sure that once we refine the disclosure forms to include evidence
which will support a claimed effort, the process will become much more
streamlined.
With the letter from Bob Bauer it is clear that this is not an assigned
task. I feel that we should encourage research regardless of the
location that it was completed. A portion of faculty load is to do
research. I would hate to see faculty running from campus once they
have completed teaching their classes because they were afraid that
individual efforts could be clamed by the University. We would have
more parking but not a healthy productive environment.
I see this as an individual effort. However, I am the chair of this
committee. I think that a motion should come from one of the members.
Thank you,
Hollis
George Gaumond wrote:
>Discussion, not a vote.
>I suspect that each of us is waiting for a first vote to get a sense of
direction.
>
>Anyway:
>1. It is clear from Bob Bauer's email that the work was not a directed
assignment.
>2. The most useful information seems to be Barbara's summary of Larry's
verbal comments.
>3. But, there does not seem to be any substantiation of Barbara's
question about the work being done during "off" hours and with personal
computers.
>4. Andy's statement about using University computers and negative
comments about bureaucratic roadblocks did not help me understand. I
did not see how "waste" would occur by being careful of separating
individual effort from university supported.
>
>My assessment:
>The work was not an assignment and personal, not university, supplies
were used.
>But, university computers were used, implying that the work was
performed during normal working hours. There is no statement about
"weekends, evenings and summer months" as Barbara suggested.
>
>Based on what I read, it looks like "university assisted" effort
because they used "paid time within the employment period" and used VSU
computers.
>
>Alternatively, since the phrase "other than office" is used in the
policy, one could define that to include a work computer, assuming that
no resources were used except electricity (vs. telecommunication
services that implies charges). I think that mitigates the PC, but not
the time.
>
>Am I assessing too rigidly?
>
>George
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
>IPCmte-L mailing list
>IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
>
_______________________________________________
IPCmte-L mailing list
IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
_______________________________________________
IPCmte-L mailing list
IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
From dhollim at valdosta.edu Sun Oct 14 22:51:04 2007
From: dhollim at valdosta.edu (Diane C Holliman)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:51:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
Message-ID: <1312843.1192416664233.JavaMail.dhollim@valdosta.edu>
After reading this more closely, I can not conclude that this is an
individual effort. I see this as a "university assisted" effort. I
concur with Tom Manning and George G's statements, and Hollis'
statement except for the part about this being an individual effort.
Thanks, Diane H.
Diane C Holliman wrote:
>
>Hi All, I know this sounds like an excuse, but . . . my mom has been
>very sick this week and last week and I am just catching up with
>emails. I am off campus right now--I do want to catch up with this
>discussion. Sorry to be so tardy with my reply. Diane
>
>Thomas J. Manning wrote:
>
>
>>The term "directed assignment" means???? When I develop new
>educational material for students I was never specifically directed to
>do this but it is definitely part of my job. I do lots of it at home at
>night/weekends simply because it is easier but all of the ideas are
>derived from my experience at VSU. The same for research - no one ever
>directed me to do work in this area or that area BUT if I worked
>elsewhere I never would be working on the same projects - the
>location/situation originates and shapes the ideas.
> Having receipts from stores for folders, etc is great - but where
>was the idea derived? If this is a university precedent - I'm not
>clear how a faculty member can write a book for a class he/she is
>teaching but say the university community was not part of molding the
>idea?
> Also, do the authors list their home or VSU address in the book?
> IMHO, tom manning
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ipcmte-l-bounces at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>[mailto:ipcmte-l-bounces at lighthouse.valdosta.edu] On Behalf Of Hollis R
>Barnett
>Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:03 PM
>To: ipcmte-l at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>Subject: Re: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
>
>This is also discussion not a vote.
>
>Thank you George for you comments. I agree with your opinion.
>
>I do not appreciate being referred to as a ?roadblock? when I am asked
>to protect University interest. Please see Andrew Ostapski?s letter. I
>am sure that once we refine the disclosure forms to include evidence
>which will support a claimed effort, the process will become much more
>streamlined.
>
>With the letter from Bob Bauer it is clear that this is not an assigned
>task. I feel that we should encourage research regardless of the
>location that it was completed. A portion of faculty load is to do
>research. I would hate to see faculty running from campus once they
>have completed teaching their classes because they were afraid that
>individual efforts could be clamed by the University. We would have
>more parking but not a healthy productive environment.
>
>I see this as an individual effort. However, I am the chair of this
>committee. I think that a motion should come from one of the members.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Hollis
>
>
>George Gaumond wrote:
>
>
>>Discussion, not a vote.
>>I suspect that each of us is waiting for a first vote to get a sense of
>direction.
>>
>>Anyway:
>>1. It is clear from Bob Bauer's email that the work was not a directed
>assignment.
>>2. The most useful information seems to be Barbara's summary of Larry's
>verbal comments.
>>3. But, there does not seem to be any substantiation of Barbara's
>question about the work being done during "off" hours and with personal
>computers.
>>4. Andy's statement about using University computers and negative
>comments about bureaucratic roadblocks did not help me understand. I
>did not see how "waste" would occur by being careful of separating
>individual effort from university supported.
>>
>>My assessment:
>>The work was not an assignment and personal, not university, supplies
>were used.
>>But, university computers were used, implying that the work was
>performed during normal working hours. There is no statement about
>"weekends, evenings and summer months" as Barbara suggested.
>>
>>Based on what I read, it looks like "university assisted" effort
>because they used "paid time within the employment period" and used VSU
>computers.
>>
>>Alternatively, since the phrase "other than office" is used in the
>policy, one could define that to include a work computer, assuming that
>no resources were used except electricity (vs. telecommunication
>services that implies charges). I think that mitigates the PC, but not
>the time.
>>
>>Am I assessing too rigidly?
>>
>>George
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>>IPCmte-L mailing list
>>IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>>http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
>>
>_______________________________________________
>IPCmte-L mailing list
>IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
>_______________________________________________
>IPCmte-L mailing list
>IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
>_______________________________________________
IPCmte-L mailing list
IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
From mmcgahee at valdosta.edu Mon Oct 15 09:49:16 2007
From: mmcgahee at valdosta.edu (Mimi McGahee)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:49:16 -0400
Subject: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
In-Reply-To: <1312843.1192416664233.JavaMail.dhollim@valdosta.edu>
References: <1312843.1192416664233.JavaMail.dhollim@valdosta.edu>
Message-ID: <D03FE9EB-2C74-4D91-AE08-89BBC96986EA@valdosta.edu>
Great discussion and my original thoughts when this was presented is
what Tom has said. I do this all the time especially w/online
development but it enhances what I am teaching--I'm sure we all do it;
it's called being a GOOD teacher. But since this is an after the
fact, do we give him the benefit of the doubt and just explain this to
him so next time he will know the proper channels to go through since
royalties are so small? As we revise, we can use this experience to
help us and consider this one falling in that grey area that our
policy needs to clarify.
Mimi McGahee
Director/ETTC
Valdosta State University
http://www.ettcvsu.us
On Oct 14, 2007, at 10:51 PM, Diane C Holliman <dhollim at valdosta.edu>
wrote:
> After reading this more closely, I can not conclude that this is an
> individual effort. I see this as a "university assisted" effort. I
> concur with Tom Manning and George G's statements, and Hollis'
> statement except for the part about this being an individual effort.
> Thanks, Diane H.
>
> Diane C Holliman wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Hi All, I know this sounds like an excuse, but . . . my mom has been
>> very sick this week and last week and I am just catching up with
>> emails. I am off campus right now--I do want to catch up with this
>> discussion. Sorry to be so tardy with my reply. Diane
>>
>> Thomas J. Manning wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The term "directed assignment" means???? When I develop new
>> educational material for students I was never specifically directed
>> to
>> do this but it is definitely part of my job. I do lots of it at
>> home at
>> night/weekends simply because it is easier but all of the ideas are
>> derived from my experience at VSU. The same for research - no one
>> ever
>> directed me to do work in this area or that area BUT if I worked
>> elsewhere I never would be working on the same projects - the
>> location/situation originates and shapes the ideas.
>> Having receipts from stores for folders, etc is great - but where
>> was the idea derived? If this is a university precedent - I'm not
>> clear how a faculty member can write a book for a class he/she is
>> teaching but say the university community was not part of molding the
>> idea?
>> Also, do the authors list their home or VSU address in the book?
>> IMHO, tom manning
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ipcmte-l-bounces at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>> [mailto:ipcmte-l-bounces at lighthouse.valdosta.edu] On Behalf Of
>> Hollis R
>> Barnett
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:03 PM
>> To: ipcmte-l at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>> Subject: Re: [IPCmte-L] Hilgert Puzzle Book
>>
>> This is also discussion not a vote.
>>
>> Thank you George for you comments. I agree with your opinion.
>>
>> I do not appreciate being referred to as a ?roadblock? when I am
>> asked
>> to protect University interest. Please see Andrew Ostapski?s lette
>> r. I
>> am sure that once we refine the disclosure forms to include evidence
>> which will support a claimed effort, the process will become much
>> more
>> streamlined.
>>
>> With the letter from Bob Bauer it is clear that this is not an
>> assigned
>> task. I feel that we should encourage research regardless of the
>> location that it was completed. A portion of faculty load is to do
>> research. I would hate to see faculty running from campus once they
>> have completed teaching their classes because they were afraid that
>> individual efforts could be clamed by the University. We would have
>> more parking but not a healthy productive environment.
>>
>> I see this as an individual effort. However, I am the chair of this
>> committee. I think that a motion should come from one of the members.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Hollis
>>
>>
>> George Gaumond wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Discussion, not a vote.
>>> I suspect that each of us is waiting for a first vote to get a
>>> sense of
>> direction.
>>>
>>> Anyway:
>>> 1. It is clear from Bob Bauer's email that the work was not a
>>> directed
>> assignment.
>>> 2. The most useful information seems to be Barbara's summary of
>>> Larry's
>> verbal comments.
>>> 3. But, there does not seem to be any substantiation of Barbara's
>> question about the work being done during "off" hours and with
>> personal
>> computers.
>>> 4. Andy's statement about using University computers and negative
>> comments about bureaucratic roadblocks did not help me understand. I
>> did not see how "waste" would occur by being careful of separating
>> individual effort from university supported.
>>>
>>> My assessment:
>>> The work was not an assignment and personal, not university,
>>> supplies
>> were used.
>>> But, university computers were used, implying that the work was
>> performed during normal working hours. There is no statement about
>> "weekends, evenings and summer months" as Barbara suggested.
>>>
>>> Based on what I read, it looks like "university assisted" effort
>> because they used "paid time within the employment period" and used
>> VSU
>> computers.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, since the phrase "other than office" is used in the
>> policy, one could define that to include a work computer, assuming
>> that
>> no resources were used except electricity (vs. telecommunication
>> services that implies charges). I think that mitigates the PC, but
>> not
>> the time.
>>>
>>> Am I assessing too rigidly?
>>>
>>> George
>>
>>
>> ---
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>> IPCmte-L mailing list
>>> IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>>> http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPCmte-L mailing list
>> IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>> http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPCmte-L mailing list
>> IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
>> http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
>> _______________________________________________
> IPCmte-L mailing list
> IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
> http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l
> _______________________________________________
> IPCmte-L mailing list
> IPCmte-L at lighthouse.valdosta.edu
> http://lighthouse.valdosta.edu/mailman/listinfo/ipcmte-l